What started to be a threesome dinner@Beach Road market end up bein a "pentosome"@ Spize and I have to say...one of the most interestin, thinkin & blasphemously funny ever. it's like a "cell group" discussion, coffee shop style. tsk! i'm not gonna mention any names in our conversations cos all of us were pretty much Guilty! 4 Muslims & 1 intend to be a Muslim. What is mentioned here is solely discussion materials, personal theories, piecing info we noe and rationalisin them.
it all started because one of us shot a question abt "Hantaran". why do Guys have to give so much money for hantaran to the Girls? is it a Must?
Answer #1: it's for givin the wife and her parents.
Answer #2: it's not an Islamic obligation for marriage, actually dun see why parents demand so much. A dowry is important but not hantaran. To me hantaran is juz like gifts u wanna present to ur prospective wife & her family. it's a Malay thing, not a religious thing..
Answer #3: i could understand that hantaran may be useful for olden days ladies cos they usually stay at home instead of work...but nowadays, girls are actually more educated, workin and independent, so instead of Increasingly high Hantaran, the price should DROP!! and why u people dunno how to answer abt hantaran??
Cos it was not mentioned in our lessons, but the Dowry is! And upon provokation of the mind, I had to go dig up my trusty old book and look up and confirm the Non-existence of hantaran! But it stated that the DOWRY/mahar/Maskawin is decided by the Girl, and it can be given in the form of CASH, THINGS, ACTIONS (like teachin Quran) and Giving Independence (to slave girls back then).
So now my question is...is the Malay tradition of givin hantaran PART of the DOWRY (Maskawin)??
Ok hantaran was a pretty mild subject...we moved on talkin & questionin abt God, Angels & Islamic stuff.
Why does God create Man and why does God allow man to think and choose, but ultimately He determines our actions.
So if someone was to choose to say commit a crime, why does God allow that and punish him after that?
Emm someone spouted...To amuse Him?? Haha but somehow the answer we came to was that, He created us to serve Him. God gives us brains to think so that we can differentiate what is good and what is bad, also to question about Him, reflect on His creations and eventually guide us to Him.
Then came more blasphemous stuff, i know some pious people will not like this, but these are What Ifs...God knows, probably these are the angels that'll kick our asses into hell for wonderin of them like these:
Q: Hey...guess which Angel has retired?
A: Jibril (Gabriel) lah...no more Wahyu (revelation) from God what!
Ahh for all u noe...he's now playin golf in heaven!
Q: So who is slackin in heaven now then, waitin for the command of his task?
A: Izrafil cos he will only blow his "horn" when it's Doom's Day!
So he might be playin WOW and watchin anime till then??
Q: u noe which prophet i like most? it's Sulaiman (Solomon) a.s.
A: i think he's sick, a freak..he can talk to animals & jinns! can u imagine anyone doin that, like dr doolittle...dun u think he's like a cuckoo??
*BUT the person actually think it is an extremely amazing capability that God grants to Solomon and to be able to rule an empire like him...WHoa..Very Very Respectable, out of tis world!*
We messed the head of that person who intended to be a Muslim with our conversations, i was told. Yes he is right, we shouldn't make fun of the angels and all. We were not tryin to make fun or did we intend to mock our religion or God himself. God Forbid and if it is really a sin, may God Forgive us...
Some SENSIBLE quotes/questions that came from the conversations:
F: Islam is a Thinkers' religion
I : There can be Miracles when u Believe
S: U want to be judged by people or do u want to be judged by GOD?
S: When we don't understand/know the reason WHY God ask to do this and that, juz follow cos some things are beyong our rationale (cos He Knows Best).
At the end of the day, is it planted in us that God's power is Magnificent, God's knowledge is Abundant, God is all Forgivin and Islam is a religion for those who seeks submission to God through both Logics and Faith.
Allahu Akbar. Allahu Akbar. Allahu Akbar.Walillahilhamd
May God have mercy on those people. Hahaha. :P
ReplyDeleteGuess wat? I like King Solomon too.... Hahaha... :P
ReplyDeleteu r the one who started abt saying u like Sulaiman A.S. what.
ReplyDeleteyes, nice dinner man.
and i honestly think hafiz missed out.
that guy can hella contribute more interesting stuffs seh.
haha
lets do it again!
Not me!...Eh u forgot the Phrase " I think too much" hahah..well all i can say is we did not make fun of the religion but rather shared info and added flavour...if we did then may God the Mercifull and All Forgiving gimme grace....
ReplyDeleteBut hey we are mere humans afterall.
SO back to the original question...i say DOWN with this HANTARAN!!
did u say sth like,
ReplyDelete''thinking too much is no good. i think too much''
rite rite?
pls... i tink he'll be the type to say "buy first pay later"? (referring to the hantaran topik)
ReplyDeleteyeah he'll add raunchiness to the subject matters, that horny fella!
ReplyDeletei say go fight for a Men's Charter!! ahahahaha!!
ReplyDeletewhat for fight for men's charter?
ReplyDeleterecite e quran properly. dengan dengung dia, harokat dia everything sui sui.
then masuk minang,
''cik, ni saya kasi hantaran ikut sunnah. Saya kasi perkakas dapur complete''.
Ali RA kasi batu lesung sumer, kita kasi blender la.
peredaran zaman.
so makcik no cause to say, Oh kahwin ikut sunnah nabi, tapi ngaji tak betul.
haa!
blender eh??? hahaha
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I also agree. Hantaran is a Hindu culture adopted by the Malays and Hindus influence are great to our ancestors last time. But we cant change our parents thinkings juz like tat. Cos they may still hold on to the quote:"Biar mati anak tapi jangan mati adat".
ReplyDeleteAllah Ta’ala berfirman:
ReplyDeleteوَلََئِنْ سَأَلْتَهمْ لَيَقُوْلُنَّ ِإنَّمَا كُنَّا نَخُوضُ وَنَلْعَبُ قُلْ أَبِاللهِ وَآيَاتِهِ وَرُسُولِهِ كُنْتُمْ تَسْتَهْزِئُونَ لَا تَعْتَذِرُوا قَدْكَفَرْتُمْ بَعْدَ إِيماَنِكُمْ (التوبة : 65-66)
Dan jika kamu tanyakan kepada mereka (tentang apa yang mereka lakukan itu), tentulah mereka akan menjawab: “Sesung-guhnya kami hanyalah bersenda gurau dan bermain-main saja”. Katakanlah: ’Apakah dengan Allah, ayat-ayat-Nya, dan Rasul-Nya kamu selalu berolok-olok?’. Tidak usah kamu meminta maaf, karena kamu telah kafir sesudah beriman.” (At Taubah:65-66)
i like this topic and it really makes me think what the market-price of hantaran now? hehehe.. $8000 or more.. ???
ReplyDeleteIs hantaran an indication of how much a girl is worth? Priceless man!!!! Kita bukan jual anak!
kalau letak kurang, jatuh ke status kita (bride and the family)? then, there will be questions like, this guy can't afford. wah $12,000, kaya sey. untung anak perempuan pak abc tu.
i wanna do my research now..... on HANTARAN! hehe...
Unfortunately, we ARE still bounded by this saying, "Nanti apa orang cakap?" I'm really tired of that..
ReplyDeleteAnyway, hantaran is a gift to the parents, a token for taking care of us before the duty is passed on to our hubby. It actually belongs to the wife's parents. From what I heard from my friends, some of their parents gave back the money in a form of master bedroom. Mas Kahwin then belongs to the wife. Its is just an age old tradition. So, if you guys want to change, make it happen.
I was discussing it with some and he said, maybe we can put hantaran like $4000 which is little compared to the market nowadays but mas kahwin which is $200+ in the market nowadays to be $1,000. Which is better? Kalau I'm a guy, of course I would give the wife more kan, pasal sayang bini more compared to sayang mak bapak bini. Anyway, who are they to put a price on their daughter? Like my friends say, "Apa dorang ingat anak dorang nye *toot* ada diamond?"
Wah...talking about marriage and mas kahwin and hantaran..is exactly what liza and I spoke about on the way home from school yesterday...phew..hot topic now...I agree with bada that the price of a lady is priceless and the hantaran as a gift to the parents for taking care of us is never enuf, cos their, sacrifices and love is priceless so i think thats why most parents will kinda return the money back to the bride for her use. I dont believe u can put a price to it...I have made it clear to my dad that if he ever ask atrocious sum of money as hantaran from my husband-to-be, I'll NEVER get married..haha...well, i think he took my "threat" well..hahah..and laughed but i know he will not ask atrocious amt...I told him that in due time i will repay him and my mum dutifully by (a) being a filial daughther (b) a good wife (c) a good human being (d) showering them with doa for their health and well-being (e) of cos take care of them physically, emotionally and financially in their golden years...
ReplyDeleteWell..this is my view, I dont mean to offend anyone but if I did, Im sorry, I like to practice democracy :) Peace peeps..
And Hafi..yes..I know what *too* means..hahaha..i heard a fren said it before..damn funny sia
Sophie darling, all the best for 207 test today :)
ReplyDeleteYes, Dee.. I second everything u said... Most importnat gift is relationship. Just imagine the girl's parents ask for a lot but the the guy cannot afford it but still want to marry the girl. So, he worked hard, taking loans here and there at the end of the day, I'm sure there'll be resentment that occurs between the guy and in-laws. That will not be good either..
ReplyDeleteP, good luck for test too...
Yah..true true..taking loan for my studies is really tough....so guys try as your might not to take loan for marriage ok?...its scary and sometimes frustrating.....jgn rush into marriage, InsyaAllah kalau dah jodoh, perkahwinan itu pasti langsung :)
ReplyDeletegood luck for your test for all taking that test today cos i know you all need the luck as i need it too so wish me good luck today, tomorrow and next week k..kikiki...
ReplyDeletewah dee..u macam signed threaty dengan your dad sey..hehehe.... i think i should do the same..kwang3
ReplyDeletei think parents should start the 'tabung kahwin' thingy for the child like m'sia's tabung haji..in addition to the education account, personal savings and such. so when it's the time to get marriage, both child and parents tak pikir-ak banyak2 carik duit.. macam orang tua2 kata..sikit2, lama2 jadi bukit... so start saving now baby! i really mean baby. hehe..
eh on second thought, the child should be the one putting in money into the 'marriage account', not the parents hor..hehe..but parents can help to save some too rite? hehe...harus saling bekerjasama :)
do we still hear they say..."saya terima nikah nya..dengan $XXX hutang!" ??? mak bapak pengantin terus kata .."Kami bantah Tok Kadi" hahaha...
ReplyDeleteFirstly, my mind was with my granpa tat nite but I got a summary from Iyuan during supper.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, hantaran is neither wajib nor sunat.
Thirdly, I'm carving for Nasi Lemak i/o tulang.
Hmm and further more we wont wanna hear husband and wife arguing and saying, "Nie smua mak bapak kau punya salah, mintak hantaran beribu-ribu!" Hahaha
ReplyDeleteehehehe...funny sia...
ReplyDeletePhew luckily nothing bout God's words were included in our conversation. And fortunately i will be judged by Him and not you. And again may Allah forgive us if we wronged..
ReplyDeleteWow lucky you, I guess joking about Jibril playin golf in heaven, Israfil slackin in heaven & callin Nabi Sulaiman(S.A.W) a freak & a cuckoo (Na’udzubillah min zalik) is ok with you huh? Allah SWT mentions His Messenger as one of the objects of mockery in surah at Taubah : 65-66. Now, Solomon (PBUH) certainly constitute as a Messenger of Allah SWT. Do you still feel you had done nothing wrong?
ReplyDeleteThe fact of the matter is that , damaged had been done. ‘Cos you simply do not talk haphazardly regarding religious matters such as God’s Malaikat & Messengers such as Jibril, Israfil & Nabi Sulaiman (SAW) in a manner that is disrespectful, blasphemous & which is outright unbecoming of a muslim!
Especially when these are among the very articles of faith & creed with which muslims are made to believe in. Have you forgotten our rukun Iman ? Which includes : Beriman kepada Malaikat Nya dan Rasul Nya. We are supposed to honour them & speak highly of them as God Himself often does in the Qur’an. When someone makes fun & jokes about them, he invariably makes a mockery of Islam and ultimately God Himself.
Why do you think Muslims around the world does not tolerate & condemn any forms of insults towards the Prophet and towards Islam? Because it is Unacceptable according to the Qur’an & the Sunnah.
Hence, isn’t it ironic when it is perpetuated by the very people that distinguishes themselves as muslims? Isnt it a shame when a muallaf , instead of being given guidance is almost led astray by the very followers he sought to become. Even more so since the muallaf was the one who reminded them of their unruly behaviour...
Dude!! ni verse referrin to orang Munafik zaman Nabi ah...Ishhh!!
ReplyDeleteOk tapi the essence from this ayat cukup memberi kesedaran supaya kita jangan merepek pasal benda-benda yang associated dengan Allah, Rasul and His Ayat (which does not solely mean verses of Quran but signs, proofs, evidences etc.)....pasal itu antara sifat/perbuatan orang Munafik yang tak respect Allah & Agama.
foooh seram sejuk ku baca tu ayat!
nevertheless, as guilt-stricken as i am, i seek some solace in the beauty of verse 102 of the same surah...may Allah watch over us all the time, and should we get swayed, He would Guide us back to the right path & not leave us deluded in a corrupt/deluded state...Wallahua'lam...sesungguhnya yang Baik itu datang dari Allah dan yang buruk itu datang dari kejahilan/kelemahan diri kita sendiri.
Thanx dude for bringin it to our attention!
yeah lah...paiseh n guilty man (actually mmg rasa guilty, abih tu muallaf cakap gitu, aiyoo lagi sad)...dah terhantuk baru rasa sakit!
ReplyDeletebut we learn somethin from tis incident rite? ada HIKMAH di sebalik segala kejadian.
ok no more funny shit. cos it turn out to be kelakar seram.
ehh i thought that's the norm?
ReplyDeletegee i haven't even discussed anythin abt marriage to parents, i juz hope they'll be realistic or maybe juz let the guy (of MY choice) make the decision how much lah, up to his kemampuan...ikhlas. senang, abis cerita, tak payah nak prove prove the guy got money or not. and i hope that my parents also dun give a damn abt wat other ppl gotta say abt their daughters tak laku ke apa if the amount happens to be little. honestly, i dun give a shit as long as the religious rites are observed, i'm cool BUT i have One condition: Honeymoon MUSTI pergi EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST & MALDIVES *no, trips on sofa set in front of Discovery & Travel channel doesn't count* Wooohooohooo~
reasonable rite my request? *LoL*
Dan jika kamu tanyakan kepada mereka (tentang apa yang mereka lakukan itu), tentulah mereka akan menjawab: “Sesung-guhnya kami hanyalah bersenda gurau dan bermain-main saja”. Katakanlah: ’Apakah dengan Allah, ayat-ayat-Nya, dan Rasul-Nya kamu selalu berolok-olok?’. Tidak usah kamu meminta maaf, karena kamu telah kafir sesudah beriman, Jika Kami memaafkan segolongan daripada kamu (lantaran mereka taubat), maka Kami akan mengazab golongan (yang lain) disebabkan mereka ada orang orang yang berbuat dosa''
ReplyDelete(atTaubat 65-66)
Everyone can cut and paste quranic verses. But i need to remind everyone that when u do that, u have to observe certain etiquettes. When u paste, paste in its entirety. If u wanna paste to illustrate a point and its not the full verse, inserting ''......'' can already indicate that the verse is incomplete. Simply putting a fullstop after the cut and paste is downright misleading.
That being said, the verses are of course very appropriate. And we beg forgiveness from Him.
While it is easy to judge and cite verses and to remind and give tazkirah, it is very prudent too to hold judgement and be cautious from being too passionate when the materials that are used to judge are just an incomplete account of what actually transpired.
The person is not a muallaf.
No misguidance was given.
The person did not remind the parties involved.
The parties involved reminded themselves.
And after every jokes/''mockery'', the parties involved explained the real deal.
Eg, Jibrail A.S. ''retired'' because his job has ended. There are no more wahyu/messages from God to Earth since the last and final Prophet has been sent down and his task has ended.
Again, all that being said, the verses are really appropriate and we again seek guidance and mercy from Him.
memang asbabun nuzulnya kerana kaum munafiq, nevertheless ayat2 Allah boleh digunakan sepanjang masa dan utk berbagai situasi dan masalah eg. sebagai peringatan utk kaum yg perangainya dan sifatnya seperti munafiq yg menyakiti perasaan muslim yg lain...
ReplyDeletealamak, you ni memang kelakar seram punya geng. you main tulis sebarang...takde pikir langsung ttg konsekuensinya..kan boleh memalukan orang Islam sendiri? (geleng kepala) Hai....tapi alhamdulillah you ni ada jugak perasaan bersalah.
hmm tapi yg lebih mengherankan, sebelum ni takde pulak yg berani nak kritik ttg percakapan2 yg cabul tu. semua buat tak tau. macam takde papa je...terus cakap pasal lain benda. hoo very mendukacitakan! takde yg nak membela agama dia sendiri. macam mana ni? apa dah jadi dgn orang kita? aku pun heran ah...
tak kira lah kita kawan ke, best friend ke, tapi bila saja sentuh ttg agama dan jelas sesuatu kelakuan itu menyalahi agama, maka kita kena lah tegur. bukan nak bermusuhan tapi utk kebaikan kita sendiri. takkan nak biarkan je tengok kawan kita dlm kemungkaran?
well i juz hope the situation will get better... insyaAllah peace, out
Ok again yes i agreed our conversations were not very respectful as muslims. Having said that we did not off the head mock or decided to ridicule and put the religion down. It was from questions and queries of the religion wanting to know/find out more of it that such remarks were made, it was made from the minds of humans, and not made to infer or ridicule our very own religion. And we did came back to the point of discussion and letting the non muslim know of what the real deal was.Mockery of Solomon, that was said bcoz of his abilities which was against the norm, talking to animals, it was thought of as "strange", sure strong words were used to describe it. BUT think of it if u saw someone talking to animals, u would go"Man he is nuts!". AND we did came back to the juice of it that GOD gave him those abilities which is great.
ReplyDeleteOn a side note thank you for pointing out the wrongs, but pls have an open mind, not just put verses and point a finger to others, have more empathy and "teach" them.There are better ways to make a point other than shooting weapons, very much like waht is happening now. I know i am far less proficient in the religion and in verses of the Quran compared to you, but verses can be digested wrongfully when one does not see it in its entirety.AND again in ALLAH i ask his forgiveness and guidance.
emmm mungkin diorg memang tak mau pandai-pandai (not like ur fren here!) or rasa diri kurang arif pasal benda sensitif mcm ni...
ReplyDeleteanyways dude, i believe we all noe it's for our good that u point out our mistakes, esp. by quotin the Quranic verses as always (altho it's describin the munafiqs back then, i am aware that it is applicable to us modern people, remember when i say the ESSENCE of the verse cukup memberi kesedaran. Quran is afterall the guide for all umat Nabi Muhammad saw hingga akhirat).
ok ok, i dun mean to confuse people lah, but the very reason i put up tis blog is firstly pasal Guilt..ada yg tak tenteram dlm hati pasal ni because of the jokes/comments we made and i actually hope in my heart, if it's a Definite Really Wrong SOMEONE will surely tell it to my face To What Extent. and yes sure enuff, u fit in the role of SOMEONE. secondly, i hope whoever reads tis (tho i limit it to my contacts only) will learn somethin from such incident (the joking part). Adiy, even if nobody seem to respond/kritik like u...at least 29 people come to view tis n probably if they actually did tis same mistake as us, they would stop and for those who never joked abt the angels and prophets, they will Not do it.
actually indeed like my friend said, we do give proper explanations abt the stuff we joked abt and were questionin ourselves if by makin our statements more fun before givin him(the one interested in becomin a Muslim, not yet muallaf, my bad again) the actual explanations of things, it would make him feel more open to ask questions abt the religion, about God instead of juz listening and agreeing to everythin what asatizah say cos it is more assurin when ur iman is placed in ur heart because of wisdom than juz blind faith. But we got him feelin cautious instead, ahh pun bagus jugak lah but make us look like crap. hahha ni pun mcm kes robin hood i guess, good intention but wrong method...turn out salah jugak.
as i've mentioned before, i've always appreciated ur teguran and pasting of Quranic verses...altho maybe to some people it is harsh but it's berisi, that's whats most important :)
ok ok...we have another issue here abt Quranic verses and the way how they should be shared.
ReplyDeletei have a suggestion. as of today, let's do things in more systematic way alrite? if anythin involve Quranic verses and stuff abt religion we have to be more cautious & precise in dishin them out and if possible share the hikmah/moral from the verses.
well for me it's sufficient the pastings cos i go dig up the Quran and some other references to verify and digest but for the sake of people who are less knowledgeable or proficient who reads my entries, lets do things in a more wise and gentle way like how the Prophet introduce iman (faith) in the hearts of his followers and show the real beauty of Islam, not by slam dunkin each other but supportin each other with nurturin warmth instead of tough love.
Can?
Yes thats an idea, but again not everyone have that mindset.
ReplyDeleteaaite...point noted. U have to excuse me tho, 'cos sometimes passion gets the better of me.
ReplyDeletepeace, man.
harsh? gosh... and i thought i was being as mild as i could be.
ReplyDeleteanyway it was touching on very sensitive matter, y'know. so can't blame a guy if he gets passionate about defending his beliefs rite?
aaite. take care, man...
Point noted as well.
ReplyDeleteBeing Passionate can be a strength or a downfall of a person.
ReplyDeleteBe careful when u handle passion, it can turn a Jedi into a Sith Lord.
with that, may the Force be with you...eh correction, may Allah be with you ;b
take care too bro!
whoa whoa whoa..... easy guys.... i can understand how funny in a general overview ..but when it comes to religion we shouldnt mess a reverts head with stuffs like this , what if last minute he suddenly decides that born muslims are so mesed up, why should I go towards that direction as well. its not even Islams' fault but us as mulsims to lead him to such idea, I know i may sound sensitive or 'gila' , but i am in a situation where my partner would insyallah be a muslim one day too, and with the so many messed up muslims the world rite now, I am not about to immerse him to so many negative aspects. In the topic of hantaran,,, yeah ..its idiotic, i must say,
ReplyDeletei am in a huge battle with my mum on the concept of it all. If the real hantaran was actually just a quran,and a little pressie to show our sincerity, and love within ourselves and Allah.. heck... it should just be it.
HAd a riff with mum, but we came out with a compromise, the least we can lah....But then mum did come out with a nice substitute as well, From her view- she said that if my partner is willing for the Mas kawin( which i bargain to be lower than she would like it to be)- she will make sure the money will come back to us... not her or my dad, to help us for the wedding..... So the money, to the public something the parents will get, but in actual fact it is a boost for us to make the wedding happen... our little bank....
Why not try and positively 'manipulate' your parents to think that way....so that both u and your partner are not conspired in a JUAL ANAK situation where the malay culture have ultimately failed to convince from a true Islamic perspective n many Reverts eyes.
WE have to stand agaisnt this crazy practise, since we are the new generation of malays who can think and change this disgusting practise. Unless we want our kids to get married with crazy MAS KAWIN of liek freakin 40k in 20 years time.. Not me... no sireee.. it stops here.
on the last note.. its not rite, but i guess its common between some muslim to joke around, but i beg u guys never to do so with people who are foreign or unknown to ISLAM as it sents out the wrong messages... ENOUGH OF THE WRONG MESSAGE ON ISLAM ALREADY>> >I AM A VICTIM OF THAT CONSEQUENCES>>> AND I DONT WANT TO BE THE ONE CARRYING THE BURDEN!
ReplyDeleteITs sickening and tiring explaining the situation.... its easier defending it when u are in a country where people do undestrand but if u live in a foreign country where majority arent Muslim and have so much hatred for us....ITS NOT FUNNY anymore... Think about it please
Dont wish to be a tyrant or a bully and hard on you guys.. but religiously- you have to be more responsible. we are adults here ,, and adiko i understand where u coming from, even though i am not such a religious person, myself- Allahualam... insyallah.
Sophie- i apologise if i sound to harsh... but hey i am suffering here girl... u know what i went thru with muslim haters here.... and i am trying hard to rectify that everyday.....masyallah.
that also refers to me, Emi. so no worries, i will not mess around with God-related stuff again.
ReplyDeletenah no need for apologies, u r not bein harsh, u explained things proper. thank u, emi :)
ReplyDeleteInsya Allah ur sufferings will be rewarded by God if u continue to keep faith, be patient & defendin the Truth from those muslim haters. may God also open their hearts and one day, be more understanding of our religion and good intentions.