*drawing/cartoon has ben removed but contents of entry is not changed*
How stooopid can one be?
Tis drawing caused much uproar among Muslims almost everywhere in the world. Tis could even spark a war! Why of all people must he potray Prophet Muhammad saw in such light? U can take Saddam or Osama and pull tis shit and people will laugh but not the Prophet, alrite? Either u have not known how noble the Prophet was or u are such an attention-seeker or simply u have low morals to use tis as a mean to show Freedom of Expression!
If blasphemy is what u seek as a fredom of expression, why don't u draw this man in this picture ass-fucking ur own mother, mr cartoonist? Isn't that even more sensational? U'd probably win some prize for creativity AND blasphemy! tsk!
So how do u expect Muslims to befriend with u Kafirs for doin such a thing to someone who we have so much respect for? Do u think tis will make the Hamas accept Israel's existence? Or maybe stop the suicide bombers from taking innocent people's lives? What a stooopid move, man!
But fear not people, I am not here to instigate hatred against Non-Muslims. If u think i'm gonna call up all my Muslim friends and family to burn flags of countries that are involved in tis whole cartoon brouhaha, I'M NOT! In fact, despite the lil anger inside my burnin heart, i'm juz gonna laugh at how distorted people can be. How superficial & fickle tis world is. And we can see how some people out there think little of us Muslims that they dare toy with things like this.
So many times, Islam has been perverted and insulted, and so many times we have to tolerate. If the people in times of Muhammad saw could tolerate the physical abuse and violence hurled at them, we the Muslims in the modern world should be able to handle this with no lesser patience, tolerance and benelovence, the true spirit of Islam.
P.S. btw i thot the "Muhammad" in the drawin looks more like a Sikh than Arab lah! Heh
hahah kurt from the west-who-needs-a-scrotum-guard?!!
ReplyDeletewah seyyy....sabar sabar...buat bertendang(no wonder he needs it!) hehehehe
Rite on sis
ReplyDeletehmmmmm ok.
ReplyDeleteguess if people are really curious abt them, they can easily find the cartoons on the net.
I agree with adiko....this is a cowardly stunt which they are trying to justify as a "freedom of speech"...what bullshit..
ReplyDeleteTo win this war of discrimination is not to let anyone or anything sway us from our faith and believe, we dont have to resort to cartoons to make a point..thats so so childish
Helo kawan kawan! Selamat bertemu!
ReplyDeleteThis is Andreas, coming from Greece, a “white”, European country, where Christianity is the dominant faith.
Let me share my views with you, starting from telling that I believe we have already dealt too much with the case. The cartoon in discussion is nothing but stupid, lacking aesthetic taste and human respect, but also lacking a historical and political criterion. Analogies I could draw from it would be to be sarcastic toward Jesus Christ because of what Hitler did to humanity, toward Moses because of what the Israeli governments have done against Palestinians and other Arabs, toward Buddha or Amaterasu because of what the Japanese army did in the Philippines during WWII and so on...
On the other hand...
Dear adiko, let me not agree with your suggestion for withdrawal of the cartoon and the links from this post. Here they served as information. I saw them only as such and I assure you my opinion about Muhammad and Islam did not become even a tiny bit worse or better because of them. Yet, I view your suggestion as censorship and -as such- let me not approve of it. If humanity (or individuals) are to form an idea about what is true and righteous, then they can never do so if information is controlled (i.e. hidden or altered), but only if they are free to have any information available. After all, what should truth have to fear from any view or opinion?
Furthermore, I can not agree with your wish “may they burn in hell for eternity”. If we demand to have respect for our own beliefs, then we don’t have a choice but to respect anybody else’s beliefs. If we don’t do so, then we simply do not seem to be honest and sincere in our wish for respect. We look like we only want to promote our own ideas, against our fellowman’s ones.
I said that the cartoon lacked political criterion. But did the attacks against the Embassies of Denmark show any political criterion? These attacks can not be seen even as an extreme form of protest. I could much better “understand” burning down the US Embassy because of the war and occupation of Iraq, but -in this case- it was only a citizen of Denmark (or a few of them) responsible for publishing the cartoon; not the government of the country!
So, what did the attacks prove? Only that among the Muslims (as in every other religious or ethnic group) there are indeed many fanatics, who are powerful enough and can apply strong influence on society and governments. But what was a possible objective of the cartoon? Maybe to be provocative and instigate violence from Muslims, and thus to show that Islam is indeed promoting “terrorism”. So... The Danish cartoonist, his stupid or evil thinking, along with some "hot blooded" Muslims just “worked well together” and pushed things toward the same direction. Well done!
Sorry for the long comment and sorry if I offended any of the friends here, which in no way I’d like to do. Let me conclude with endorsing the preaching for tolerance and brotherhood by Mowlana Jalaluddin Rumi and the teaching for knowledge by Abu al-Walid Muhammad ibn Rushd...
PS: My Canadian friend Andy has also posted a sensitive view about the issue here:
http://hrothgar.multiply.com/journal/item/51?last_read=1&mark_read=hrothgar:journal:51
I see no big deal in this.
ReplyDeleteBut i honestly think the burnin of flags, embassies, are somewhat too extreme.
There is always 2 sides of the coin.
As how we never hear or listen or read abt Rasulullah and the khalifahs saying sth like tis, ''The jews must be wiped out off the world map'', we read how Ahmadinejad said precisely that. And he is the president of the strongest Islamic nation in that region.
That just honestly spastic.
But i am heartened to read that a palestinian cleric/leader telling his followers that no harm shld come to the westerners in Palestine. The westerners are their guests and its the palestinians sacred obligation to protect their guests.
This is true islamic spirit and tolerance.
Oh another spastic thing,
Prince Nayef (The interior minister of Saudi Arabia i tink) Asked the Vatican, being a religious centre, to issue a statement/stand.
Spastic!
What gd can the vatican do? If the next Pope actually re-establish the crusade, what is he gonna do? Call on the Secretary General of United Nations to condemn the crusade call?
DAMN SPASTIC!
I'm Fariz. just read ur entry and replies. Mind if I have my say.
ReplyDeleteThe spirit of tolerance is still alive, thank Allah, in this day and age.
I wonder if we've been to taken in to propaganda that we tend to forget the values that we should hold dear for ourselves.
Truthfully speaking, as a Moslem, I could care less about the cartoon. I knew it was there and I saw it but I knew that came from misguided and perhaps attention seeking people like what firestarlet said. I hate those guys for disrespecting and dessecrating my religious beliefs. Do I want to start destroying their embassies? Hell no...
The Prophet Muhammad would always face everything through discussion first. No go gung ho and start burning things.
I kind of felt sorry for those danes. It's their perhaps close minded and misunderstanding that have just cost them their economy in the middle east and everything.
And about the crusades..Pls no more religious war talk..Things like this are used as propaganda to begin the discussion of the whole religious war thing. Can't we all just get along
-Fariz
Andreas, I'm a big conspircay theory guy (too many X-Files), but maybe you got a point. I wonder if it was some plot to see how Moslems would react and just piss Moslems off just to show the kind of, what some would call, hot blooded behaivour as you take it. So then the US can have a reason to put its foot down, yet again for the nth time. Oh well, Denmark only paid for it with its economy and trust. The Middle easter countries are a large consumer market for danish dairy good. U can say goodbye to that.
ReplyDeleteWhat the Moslem people wanted was an apology. I think it was a matter of freedom of speech and pride that took so long for an apology to come out of the people. And the government didn't want to force the issue so maybe I can see how the government might be at fault, I know the whole freedom of speech thing.
Patience...tolerance.. benevolence..
ReplyDeleteExactly how the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and the Sahabat would deal with this matter.
Now, we just have to be thankful, Osama and his buddies at Al-Qaeda didn't stick their nose in.
If anti-semitism is something attributed to bashing Judaism.. Then why can't Moslems have the same right?
Anti-islamiphobiatism (or whatever u call) cause we've been bashed and discriminated in the past decade as much, or even more, than any other religion..
You've got a point too. Still, you may be pulling the issue a little too much to get to it.
ReplyDeleteFor me the word "understanding" is magic! Let me give an example.
Recently enough the Turkish prime minister Redjep Tayyip Erdogan visited Denmark and (as the custom and protocol holds) he was going to give a common press conference together with his Danish counterpart. As he was informed about the presence of a journalist from a certain TV channel (supposedly supporting Kurdish PKK organisation's views, which is considered to be a "terrorist" group by official Turkey) he demanded that the TV channel would be excluded from the press conference. The Danish prime minister denied, because he explained that the TV station was absolutely legal in his country, so Erdogan broke the protocol and did not take part in the press conference.
Which one of the prime ministers was right? Both of them, according to public opinion in each of their own countries! Where is understanding in the case? It doesn't matter for politicians, because interest counts much more than understanding. But we are not politicians, so we should give it a better try...
Clue: Erdogan is a leader of a religious enough, Islamic party... PKK and its Kurdish followers are Muslims too... In my view, religion was never and is surely not the only and not even the dominant (if at all) factor influencing politics, international relations and wars. Let's be smart about it, my friends. It all comes down to business!
Hey bro, no worries. What u said make sense.
ReplyDeleteBut the purpose of my crusades example is just hypothetical.
Its part of history. So it happened.
No guarantee it will not happen again in another form.
Still, i concur with what u said.
Cheers ;)
You've got a point too. Still, you may be pushing the issue a little too much to get to it.
ReplyDeleteFor me the word "understanding" is magic! Let me give an example.
Recently enough the Turkish prime minister Redjep Tayyip Erdogan visited Denmark and (as the custom and protocol holds) he was going to give a common press conference together with his Danish counterpart. As he was informed about the presence of a journalist from a certain TV channel (supposedly supporting Kurdish PKK organisation's views, which is considered to be a "terrorist" group by official Turkey) he demanded that the TV channel would be excluded from the press conference. The Danish prime minister denied, because he explained that the TV station was absolutely legal in his country, so Erdogan broke the protocol and did not take part in the press conference.
Which one of the prime ministers was right? Both of them, according to public opinion in each of their own countries! Where is understanding in the case? It doesn't matter for politicians, because interest counts much more than understanding. But we are not politicians, so we should give it a better try...
Clue: Erdogan is a leader of a religious enough, Islamic party... PKK and its Kurdish followers are Muslims too... In my view, religion was never and is surely not the only and not even the dominant (if at all) factor influencing politics, international relations and wars. Let's be smart about it, my friends. It all comes down to business!
Maybe my views are a bit differet than most Moslems.. I just chill..heck, I even laughed and God knows maybe I've sinned. But truthfully speaking, yeah, it pulls your heart out. yeah, it smells of Islamicphobia.. The paper published it.. Criminal charges have been done. Middle eastern countries have boycotted. There are greater issues than this, in my belief, for a Moslem. If Islam is disrespected as such, I would feel angry, but I also believe in Allah.. If we truly do believe in a Deity, Allah, then we, as Moslems, should pray to Allah and pray that Allah will show the way and give a peaceful resolution..
ReplyDeleteBut people apply the double standard about freedom of speech..
ReplyDeleteThey can say thing about Islam..it's alright
Where as if I go around Washington wearing a t-shirt with Osama's pic and carrying a banner which says "Osama, I love you" or "Osama, save us from Bush", then I'm suspected of being a TERRORIST ?
it was Freedom of Speech..
Alhamdulillah, 1st of all, I’d like to thank sis starlet for taking off the offensive pics & links for the obvious reason that it is offensive & blasphemous to us Muslims. I understood that it is her blog n I had asked her nicely n I respect her for doing the right thing. Jazakallah to her for that.
ReplyDeleteAfter all they are the reasons for sparking the anger, protests & riots from Muslims around the world. Hence it is my view that it just wouldn’t be right for us Muslims to reproduce them here even though it is merely for the sake of info cos it would be contradictory to our beliefs. It wouldn’t be fair when at the same time Muslims around the world are fighting hard for it not to be republished nor reproduced at anywhere or anytime, ever again.
Furthermore I fail to see the logic that these hideously offensive pics & links could serve as an added info to the already described drawings of the Prophet in the papers. We already know that they were an insults to our beloved Prophet s.a.w. A mere drawing of the Prophet s.a.w alone is not allowed, hence there is no purpose for wanting to see the extent of the drawing. And as sis starlet rightly puts it, if anyone is eager enough to find them, then can do so elsewhere in the web. & Better elsewhere than on a Muslim’s site.
If by doing so, u wanna call it censorship & if u disapprove, then so be it. Personally I don’t know what’s the fuss that u’re cryin about. I’m merely suggesting that these filths do not belong here. This is by no means “controlled, hidden or altered” cos they’re still “free & available” in the www!
It’s your prerogative to disagree with my wish that the perpetrators be burnt in hell for eternity. But aren’t u contradicting ur self? Cos pls tell me what have these hell dwellers done to earn my respect towards them??!! Zero! In fact they’ve earned the wrath of millions of Muslims around the world.
The attacks on the embassy are an extreme form of protest no less, cos the protestors believed that the Danish govt did nothing to stop these insulting pics from being published or further reproduced & republished & that they are not willing to apologise for the insults.
The attacks proved that the Muslims won’t stand for the insults to their beloved holy Prophet s.a.w. & they take their religion seriously. In fact , to be fair, any religious group would have reacted in similar fashion had they believed that their religion had been insulted. So pls refrain from accusing these Muslims as “fanatics” cos they have every right to be angry.
Lastly, let it be known that there are boundaries for tolerance & brotherhood . When there is involvement of any form of violations & insults towards the holy Prophet s.a.w, even Rumi & Avveroes would condemned harshly on the perpetrators.
Wallahu a’lam
As salamu alaykum Adiy!
ReplyDelete“A mere drawing of the Prophet s.a.w alone is not allowed”.
I respect that. It’s your belief and explains sufficiently why you suggested the cartoon to be removed from a Muslim’s site. But I think the Quran also does not allow any picture of any human to be made (is it really so?). Still, I see the picture of yourself on your site... There’s also a dispute about how compulsory the headscarf is for Muslim women. In Iran wearing the headscarf is enforced. Does that make all Iranian women consciously faithful? Then why many of them take off the scarf when they travel abroad? In Muslim Turkey women wearing headscarf (even the Prime Minister's wife) are discriminated and not allowed to attend University nor work for the state! Also, the Turkish state itself (state company Tekel) sells alcoholic beverages and many Turkish Muslims drink them... as many Muslims from Kenya and Sudan, whom I have personally met, do. Many Muslims around the world do not doubt at all that the Prophet is of course to be respected, still they believe that their lives today -in year 1427 or whatever- should be lived in a way taking into consideration many more deeds, laws and ideas.
“The Danish govt did nothing to stop these insulting pics from being published or further reproduced & republished & that they are not willing to apologise for the insults”.
No my friend. I won’t accept any damn government, good or bad, to allow or not allow what piece of info will be able to reach my attention or not. Who is going to judge what is suitable to reach my brain and what is not? A majority? Or a holy book? And what if one lives in a country whose holy book s/he does not accept? What about countries that have citizens of several religions? Right now the Chinese government forced Google to filter the information entering the Chinese internet. The Chinese people have less information than you or I have. Do you approve of it?
As about the Danish govt refusing to apologise...
Why should any govt apologise about the views and actions of any of its citizens? Sorry, but I don’t see it this way.
I noticed (you say) you are from Western Sahara and I remembered my youth, when I warmly supported and expressed my solidarity with Polisario, the political front then fighting for the independence of the Sahraoui land from Morocco and Mauritania. I did not care at all about their religion when I did so, and I believe they would not care much about my beliefs either, as long as I supported their humanly just cause. So, I’m giving you my hand and suggesting both of us to try a little more for mutual understanding. I believe honest discussion does not harm. Nevertheless, if anyone here believes that what I’m saying is insulting, I’m willing to withdraw all my writings from this thread, as Sophie can also do anyway.
Masya Allah!! Wow!
ReplyDeleteWhen I wrote in tis entry, never did i expect tis kind of response! I am really grateful to u people for ur input esp. Andreas, Fariz and Adiy for making such bold and strong views abt this topic.
I have juz seen the latest news abt Syrians burning down Danish & Norwegian embassies. And I have to say ITS A SHAME that my fellow Muslim brothers & probably sisters there have to resort to such violations! To any Danes and Norwegians out there, pls forgive them for their action, it is to much regret, very Over-bearing what they have done.
Adiy, condemning harshly on the perpetrators does not mean we Muslims have the right to destroy properties. It makes us look like a bunch of morons. Any rational Muslim would naturally feel outraged by such insulting drawings of our beloved Prophet, but we should not resort to those kind of damaging acts. I am pretty sure u noe the hadiths & ayats in Quran abt handling anger, and u noe how Rasulullah himself handled mockery and humiliation. He did not call upon his followers to do damage, be suicide bombers and stuff like that despite being oppressed. Isn't this(cartoon shit) something like a deja vu? A repeat of what happened in history? Let's set our egos aside, no matter how angry we are. We should be seizing tis chance, to stand in solidarity to stop all tis crazy nonsense by Rational means and i hold to this dearly.
"Berilah pengampunan, perintahlah kebaikan & janganlah menghiraukan orang-orang bodoh" (al-A'raf:199)
"Hold forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant" (al-A'raf:199)
Andreas, initially i wanted to show how hideous our Prophet was depicted and how disrespectful the cartoonist was but after Adiy's request, i thought maybe its better to remove it cos maybe juz maybe i would be the cause of adding fuel to the fire. But goshh, i was wrong...tis blog Exploded after the cartoon and link was removed! How ironic! But still i will not put it up again, fully support Adiy's say that it wouldn’t be fair when at the same time Muslims around the world are fighting hard for it not to be republished nor reproduced at anywhere or anytime, ever again. But truly, thank u for ur views, it is full of depths and definitely are eye and mind openers. I guess moral of the story is "Do unto others what u want others to do unto u"
And I also appreciate it that a non-muslim like u and ur friend Andy actually bother to speak out abt tis, and not quite boss around abt Freedom of Expression. Kudos!
Fariz, first of all welcome to my page! Thank u for bein supportive and sharin the same sentiment abt tis issue. U have quite a sense of humour (i checked out ur page dedicated to Osama). But i really hope he ain't gonna see ur dare and do more damage to what's already been done! Scary & God Forbids!
i shall go to bed now, PEACE & RESPECT in their highest order alrite, no wars in my blog guys, we are merely human :)
{{GROUP HUGS FOR ALL}}
Time out...Time out..Since when is there a law that stated we couldn't have a picture of ourselves to be made? I never heard of it.
ReplyDeleteWe have to remember the reason why the picture of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH is and always will be disallowed by most of the Moslem organizations. The reason no portrayal of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH is allowed is because Prophet Muhammad PBUH did not want Moslems to worship or idolize him, ie in a way like Jesus Christ. The focus of Islam is on the worship of God, the creater, Allah Swt. That's one of the main reasons why we, Moslems, were never allowed any historical drawings of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH or the Sahabat. The emphasis was on the teachings that the Prophet gave to Moslems, never on the person himself. We should remember him for the teachings, that Allah is our God and Islam is our religion, and the moral code he left us with. Not to be infatuated by any drawings or portrayals, ie Jesus Christ.
NOw the headscarf thing, it's a bit sensitive. Almost like the beard issue too. For me, the headscarf is a personal choice that will impact a person's life. There is a moral responsibility associated with wearing headscarf, it's not just a fashion statement. In my family, you wear the headscarf when you're ready and you know the increased responsibility it brings with. Same thing as being a Moslem, there are many different levels of faith and belief. For those guys who drink, I could care less bout them, people can live their lives the way they want to. And Turkey is a secular country, so that should factor into the things you said.
Hadith - Bukhari 3:428, Narrated Said bin Abu Al-Hasan
ReplyDeleteWhile I was with Ibn 'Abbas a man came and said, "O father of 'Abbas! My sustenance is from my manual profession and I make these pictures." Ibn 'Abbas said, "I will tell you only what I heard from Allah's Apostle. I heard him saying, 'Whoever makes a picture will be punished by Allah till he puts life in it, and he will never be able to put life in it.' " Hearing this, that man heaved a sigh and his face turned pale. Ibn 'Abbas said to him, "What a pity! If you insist on making pictures I advise you to make pictures of trees and any other unanimated objects."
Hadith -Bukhari 4:47, Narrated 'Aisha
I stuffed for the Prophet a pillow decorated with pictures (of animals) which looked like a Namruqa (i.e. a small cushion). He came and stood among the people with excitement apparent on his face. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is wrong?" He said, "What is this pillow?" I said, "I have prepared this pillow for you, so that you may recline on it." He said, "Don't you know that angels do not enter a house wherein there are pictures; and whoever makes a picture will be punished on the Day of Resurrection and will be asked to give life to (what he has created)?"
Hadith - Bukhari 4:448, Narrated Abu Talha
I heard Allah's Apostle saying; "Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal)."
Hadith -Bukhari 5:338, Narrated Ibn Abbas
Abu Talha, a companion of Allah's Apostle and one of those who fought at Badr together with Allah's Apostle told me that Allah's Apostle said. "Angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture." He meant the images of creatures that have souls.
Hadith - Bukhari 3:428, Narrated Said bin Abu Al-Hasan
ReplyDeleteWhile I was with Ibn 'Abbas a man came and said, "O father of 'Abbas! My sustenance is from my manual profession and I make these pictures." Ibn 'Abbas said, "I will tell you only what I heard from Allah's Apostle. I heard him saying, 'Whoever makes a picture will be punished by Allah till he puts life in it, and he will never be able to put life in it.' " Hearing this, that man heaved a sigh and his face turned pale. Ibn 'Abbas said to him, "What a pity! If you insist on making pictures I advise you to make pictures of trees and any other unanimated objects."
Hadith - Bukhari 4:47, Narrated 'Aisha
I stuffed for the Prophet a pillow decorated with pictures (of animals) which looked like a Namruqa (i.e. a small cushion). He came and stood among the people with excitement apparent on his face. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is wrong?" He said, "What is this pillow?" I said, "I have prepared this pillow for you, so that you may recline on it." He said, "Don't you know that angels do not enter a house wherein there are pictures; and whoever makes a picture will be punished on the Day of Resurrection and will be asked to give life to (what he has created)?"
Hadith - Bukhari 4:448, Narrated Abu Talha
I heard Allah's Apostle saying; "Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal)."
Hadith - Bukhari 5:338, Narrated Ibn Abbas
Abu Talha, a companion of Allah's Apostle and one of those who fought at Badr together with Allah's Apostle told me that Allah's Apostle said. "Angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture." He meant the images of creatures that have souls.
I absolutely respect any FREE personal choice!
ReplyDelete* I'm against the law of Turkey prohibiting women wearing headscarf from Universities or state employment.
* I'm against the law of France prohibiting any religious symbols (including headscarf) worn at schools.
* I'm against the law of Greece not allowing any party that will take below 3% on national level to elect any Member of Parliament, even if they get more than 50% in regional level. This law was made after a Muslim party managed to elect two Representatives in Parliament. (Muslims in Greece are well below 3%, so they have no hope with this law in effect).
* I'm against the voices of the Church of Greece and fanatic Christians here, who shout against building a Mosque in Athens, while there are thousands of Muslim immigrants legally living and working here.
* I'm against the disrespectful use of old, inactive Mosques in Greece (since the Ottoman times, when Turks also lived here), while many Greeks complain about disrespectful use of old churches in Turkey.
The question is: Would the religious leaders of these people whose rights I support, also support the free exercise of my own rights, in case they came to power? Seeing what's happening in countries where government and (any) religion are interconnected (let's say Islamic Iran but also Orthodox Christian Greece, at a lesser degree though) allows me to be sceptical about it...
sophie...apa hal ni...
ReplyDeletewad a page!
anyways... my 2 cents.. all religion teaches one righteousness... respect and love for all human mankind... we stay human and humane.. continue on our faith and practices.. be a practioner on our teachings... wadever religion it is
god bless all...
I don't have enough understanding regarding this matter.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a big hadith person so I'll leave it to perhaps those who have greater knowledge, maybe adiko or others, to reply on this matter.
As in all religions, there are different schools in Islam. Like you said, there are radicals, fundamentalist, liberalist, and all those jargon and different perception of religion. I'm a normal kid, the one in the middle. I'm religious, I'm proud to be Islamic and a Moslem, and I also live with Islam as a guide for living in the 21st century.
emmm exchange of opinions, thots and knowledge? Freedom of Expression in progress??
ReplyDeleteeidza,2 cents je? donate lah lebih sikit ;b
God bless Thee too babe!
We all know that it was the US petroleum companies' will...
ReplyDeleteTo my understanding all politics are not necessarily related to religion. A few Christian Western European countries (e.g. France) were against the US war in Iraq (defending their own companies' interest, of course - not of humanitarian feelings), while some Muslim Middle Eastern countries cooperated with the Americans (again for reasons of interest of their ruling cast).
The subject of my interest in this discussion is not religion. This is a private matter and I don't feel wise enough for (nor I am interested in) teaching anybody. My subject is human respect and understanding...
When a hotshot Greek journalist says he likes to read, better believe it. Goshhh even hadiths?? Andreas u Da man! u made my jaw dropped more than the male bellydancer did at the recent hafla! *salute salute*
ReplyDeleteAnd Fariz, i'm with u bro...i'm all for wat u said in this discussion esp."I'm a normal kid, the one in the middle. I'm religious (err tis i can't declare for myself tho), I'm proud to be Islamic and a Moslem, and I also live with Islam as a guide for living in the 21st century. "
Ok Andreas, as i am typin tis, i saw ur msg comin in...i think by now, all of us who has been followin up every inch of tis conversations get what u r driving at abt human respect & understanding(if they dun, at least i do!), u have even practised it right here too!
Gosh tis has been the most interesting & educational thread in my blog Ever!! Thank God for Internet & Multiply!!!
Well... Since I would certainly not impress you with my belly-dancing, I had to use some other trick :-)))
ReplyDeleteBelly dancing? Do they do that in Greece? I thought that was Lebanese..
ReplyDeletehear you loud and clear Andreas..
ReplyDeleteMost of the stuff that we see now are just media propaganda controlled by sides with their own will and agenda.
Some significant event occurs that stirs up a certain side, ie the drawing, and the political powers start to utilize the occasion for their own gain. I mean, boycotting products is still understandable but violence and bombs and burning down embassies. U know there's an instigator or people within the crowd who are manipulating the crowd to do the damage of a certain political power.
And this same even could all have been orchastrated by political powers with their own political agenda, can I say every EU nation fears HAMAS? And they, EU and America, need a reason to stamp their authority in the middle east once again. For all we know, the cartoons came out in November, why all of a sudden is it a big deal now? I think someone is playing the cards to fulfill a certain agenda. And everyone is playing right into the hands of those behind the scenes.
I know, the hardest bit is being that normal kid most of the time. The old school people try to make u think their way. The liberalist try to make u think their way. All different sects and divisions and schools of thought. I just wanna think for myself.
ReplyDeleteDamn good question! May well be (as you also imply) because the Hamas got a majority vote just recently, so the Westerners need a good excuse not to recognise a government possibly formed by it...
ReplyDeleteJust joking. I don't do belly-dancing :-)
ReplyDeleteStill, we are familiar with it, but not with men dancing it... just women.
We are not far from the Middle East, Fariz, and Turkey (also famous for belly-dancing) is just next door... Our folk music, traditional instruments, food and sweets are also very close to the Middle Eastern ones...
Tsifteteli is a form of bellydance! I don't know if it originated from Greece or Turkey...but the rhythms are cute to dance to! oopsie we are goin off topic here. haha
ReplyDeleteExactly. May God guide us and show us the right paths in all that we do. Insya Allah :)
ReplyDeleteendless possibilities! but i suspected so too. hmmm but let's not go into all tis conspiracy theory thingy alrite, leave that to Agent Fox Mulder & Agent Dana Scully(i miss tis hot red-head!) !
ReplyDeleteBut something just does not feel right about everything..
ReplyDeleteIt all seems to fall too easily in place..
Cartoons..
Problems..
Terrorism..
It's too convenient, and like Andreas said, it took 3 months for it to become a big issue? Something doesn't add up. And of course, everyone fears IRAN for having a Nuclear Energy program.
So conspiracy is what I have left. Cause taking it as it is, all the news, can make one feel emotional and misdirected.
Amin to that. May Allah guide us, and not the words of people who may have their own agenda.
ReplyDeleteur the journalist, right andreas? you think you can run with that theory and story?
ReplyDeleteIt looks that you were informed by a Greek source :-) "Tsifteteli" is the Greek way to write the Turkish word "çiftetel", which is a dance popular in both neighbouring countries, yes a pleasant rhythm and a form of belly-dancing.
ReplyDeleteBut don't worry; through the Greek AND Turkish belly-dancing we can easily get back to our topic!
Christian Greeks and Muslim Turks had lived mixed together for centuries, both folks respecting each other's religion and culture. They had even formed a common culture, which is actually alive until today! Then big politics came... The Ottoman Empire was in decline and the Westerners competed who would take the biggest or richest piece of it (by the way, Britain got Iraq and its oil, then). The "Great Powers" always find convenient to use smaller countries and do their dirty business through them. You know; the good old rule: "divide and rule".
Soooo... after centuries of coexistence, some forces managed to make the Greeks and the Turks believe that they are so strangers, because of different ethnic origin and religion, that they could not live together. And then hatred began... and wars... in 1897, 1912, 1919... Also in 1964 and 1974 in Cyprus... And prejudice -more or less- is holding till now...
It's probably because of such experience that I respect human soul much more than any national or religious banner. Oh... also music... I believe it's strong enough and capable of breaking borders... or psychological barriers...
Not me! Iran has no reason to use nuclear weapons. What I fear is the only force in history that has ever committed the crime against humanity by actually using nuclear weapons; the USA! Which has never apologised about it!
ReplyDeleteHmmm im speaking from the bottom of my heart when i say this...FUCKING long replies! I'm not someone to read and read and read words..so pls i hope multiply comes out wif a vid recording or voice recording to use as replies instead in their next upgrade!heheh. Ok but back to the topic, regarding the cartoons, 1st the artist depiction of our Prophet is i think gotten from his vision of Osama wif a turban, damn sick i would like to think our Phopet was much much more gd looking than that! 2nd i just think all those pple who went to the extreme of burning those flags and attacking embassy are ridiculous.Oh and today in the news there was a priest shot dead and of coz linking the murder to some muslim due to the current uproar and bcoz he was heard shouting "Allah is Great!" Cmon! Violece biget violence. Dont try and hit a fool to make him understand or even shout at the fool. Coz YOU will look like a BLOODY FOOL! Let the fool make fun and shout profanities soon others will find him an irritant and put him away. BUT i think these pple who reacted to the extend or causing all this commotion are those wif still shallow knowledge of the religion or maybe too extreme. but if that artist was playing WoW on my server i will hunt him and put him down time after time!Muhahahah
ReplyDeleteAgree & apologise. No more long repl...
ReplyDelete(reply automatically cut because it exceeded 30 characters)
:-)))
: ) no apologise required dude...
ReplyDeleteBismillahirahmanirahim
ReplyDeleteInsyaAllah, ini sekadar penjelasan yg mampu ana paparkan.
Gambar yg diharamkan hanya gambar yg ditakuti/dikhuatiri akan disembah orang dan gambar yg memang disembah orang. Selain dari itu tidak haram. Hukum tentang gambar adalah serupa dgn hukum ttg patung. Patung yg dikhuatiri akan disembah orang dan patung yg memang disembah orang hukumnya haram. Selain dari itu tidak haram.
Dalilnya: Aisyah ra membuat bantal dari kain yg bergambar dan Aisyah pernah bermain dgn anak-anak patung maka ia tidak dilarang oleh Rasulullah s.a.w.
Telah berkata Aisyah: Rasulullah saw pernah pergi berperang. Maka saya ambil satu hamparan (yg bergambar) lalu saya gantungkan ke atas pintu. Sekembalinya Rasulullah dan ketika melihat hamparan itu , kelihatan pada mukanya bahwa ia tidak suka lantas ia tarik sampai tercabut lalu ia berkata: “Sesungguhnya Allah tidak perintah kami memakaikan pakaian bagi batu dan tanah”. Lantas kami jadikan ia dua bantal dan saya penuhkannya dgn sabut korma. Rasulullah tidak mencela saya buat begitu. ( H.S.R Muslim)
Telah berkata Aisyah: Sesungguhnya saya pernah menggunakan satu tabir bergambar, lalu Rasululllah saw masuk dan turunkannya , maka saya jadikan ia sebagai dua bantal yg kemudian Rasulullah biasa bersandar padanya. (H.S.R. Muslim)
Telah berkata Aisyah : Saya biasa bermain dgn anak-anak patung dihadapan Nabi s.a.w ( H.S.R Bukhari)
(Materi lanjutan, boleh merujuk kpd kitab fatwa soal-jawab Ust. Ahmad Hassan jilid 1 halaman 347-363 yg dibahas agak panjang.)
Banyak perkara yg ditimbulkan yg sebenarnya tiada kaitan dgn topik perbicaraan namun ana rasa terpaksa menjelaskannya secara sepintas lalu. Tentang hijab dan jilbab, kita sudah maklum ttg kewajibannya dan dalilnya telah disebut dlm perintah Allah swt dlm AQ ( an-Nur:31, al-Ahzab:59) dan juga dlm hadith maka ia pun sudah menjadi pendapat yg jumhur dan tidak ada perselisihan dlm masalah ini. Dlm bab khamar atau minuman keras juga dalilnya sudah jelas dlm AQ ( al-Baqarah 219 ) Saya rasa tidak perlu dibahas ttg orang2 Islam yg tidak menyempurnakan kewajibannya kerana itu sudah menjadi lumrah kpd mana-mana pihak agama jua , orang yg dinamakan Muslim itu belum tentu ia menyempurnakan segala tuntutan agamanya. Namun ini tidak menjejaskan hukum-hukum asal itu sendiri yg telah diturunkan oleh Allah swt dlm AQ dan dijelaskan oleh RasulNya dlm hadith.
Ana rasa penjelasan ana sebelum ini sudah memadai dan secara peribadi ana rasa tidak perlu utk ana nak buang masa melayani mat ni sangat kerana ana rasa ia banyak putar alam dan banyak pertikaikan dan mengelirukan aqidah kita yg telah mantap.
Ana ingin berpesan khususnya dlm hal agama, seharusnya kita sentiasa merujuk kpd kitab-kitab usul kita, yakni AQ & juga sunnah yg sahih,juga kitab-kitab ulama’ yg muktabar dan terus berilmu dan bertanya kpd orang yg memang ahli dlm bidang agama supaya kita tidak mudah terkeliru,diperdayai dan ditimbul oleh rasa ragu dgn agama kita yg suci.
Akhiru kalam, hanya Allah jua tempat kami meminta perlindungan serta mengharapkan taufiq dan hidayahNya.
Peringatan dari Allah swt:-
" Wahai orang-orang beriman, janganlah kamu mengambil orang-orang
yg bukan dari kalangan kamu menjadi orang dalam (yg dipercayai).
Mereka tidak akan henti-henti berusaha mendatangkan bencana kepada
kamu. Mereka suka kepada apa yg menyusahkan kamu. Telah nyata
kebencian mereka pada percakapan mulut mereka dan apa yg
disembunyikan oleh hati mereka itu lebih besar lagi. Sesungguhnya
telah Kami jelaskan keterangan-keterangan itu kepadamu jika kamu
memahaminya." (Surah Ali-Imran : 118)
lagi:-
120. Orang-orang Yahudi dan Nasrani tidak akan senang kepada kamu hingga kamu mengikuti agama mereka. Katakanlah: "Sesungguhnya petunjuk Allah Itulah petunjuk (yang benar)". dan Sesungguhnya jika kamu mengikuti kemahuan mereka setelah pengetahuan datang kepadamu, Maka Allah tidak lagi menjadi perlindu
Salam Adiy,
ReplyDeleteLike the last time we had some religious issues, u stick to being objective, and i really respect u for that and for ur willingness to dig out all those stuff that u noe.
Memang kadang-kadang orang luar dari Islam bila tanyakan kita sesuatu, boleh mengelirukan dan menimbulkan rasa ragu dalam agama, tapi boleh juga membuka minda untuk mendorong kita supaya lebih meneliti agama dan syariat kita dgn cara yg lebih halus seterusnya memperkuatkan lagi keimanan dan ketakwaan kita kepada Allah swt. like u said, kalau kita sentiasa merujuk kpd kitab-kitab usul kita, yakni Quran & juga sunnah yg sahih,juga kitab-kitab ulama’ yg muktabar dan terus berilmu dan bertanya kpd orang yg memang ahli dlm bidang agama, Insya Allah kita tidak mudah terkeliru & diperdayai. I concur.
I hope in my effort to practise and remove buruk sangka pasal Islam in a peaceful and friendly way, I did not go wayy over the border. kita sama-sama Muslim, kena sentiasa ingat mengingatkan..so thank u for the ayat2 peringatan and i hope kalau ada keterlanjuran, u would help me out too :)
Semoga dapat manfaat daripada segala apa yg tertulis dalam correspondence ni semua. Heh sorry kalau my language campur2, nak bebual melayu tapi tak fasih sangat. Peace out too!
Semoga berjaya!
ReplyDeleteOOT but boy, Is bahasa Melayu different from Bahasa Indonesia.
ReplyDeleteEnglish translations?
I hope it means something like "all the best".
ReplyDeleteAt least that's what I intended to wish :-)
very similar but there's a slight difference dude.
ReplyDeleteeg. when u guys say "ngga bisa" we say as "tidak/tak boleh"